Mouse rant blog vent mouse.

Friday, February 25, 2005

Alright, I'll join the shit storm

Dan Savage makes a proposal to help curb HIV infections due to neglectful sexual behavior this week that he knows damn well is going to cause a lot of people to go bananas.

No, my radical plan to curb unsafe sex among gay men is modeled on a successful program that encourages sexual responsibility among straight men: child-support payments. A straight man knows that if he knocks a woman up, he's on the hook for child-support payments for 18 years. He's free to have as much sex as he likes and as many children as he cares to, but he knows in the back of his mind that his quality of life will suffer if he's irresponsible.

So why not drug-support payments? If the state can go after deadbeat dads and make them pay child support why can't it go after deadbeat infectors and make them pay drug support? Now that would be radical. Infect someone with HIV out of malice or negligence and the state will come after you for half the cost of the meds the person you infected is going to need. (The man you infected is 50 percent responsible for his own infection.)

I'm not going to go into all the various reasons that this may or may not be a good plan that are sure to be in all the letters flooding Savage's mailbox this week. I personally agree that anyone who knows he is HIV positive and deliberately has unprotected sex with people without disclosing his HIV status to his partners should face some kind of punishment. But aligning that punishment with child support is not the way to go about it, because that implies that child support is punishment.

Child support is not punishment. Child support is taking legal responsibility for your children when you don't live with them. Period. Really, it has zip to do with sex or punishments for sex or anything like that. You are legally obligated to take responsibility for children you conceive. There are a couple cases out now that are making it clear that it's not the sex that is the issue, but the children and who made 'em. You are obligated to pay child support for the same reason you are obligated not to lock up the kids in your house in the basement--your responsibility as a parent is to take care of your children. Someone's got to take care of the kids, and we look first to the parents.

Children are not a punishment for sex. Dan Savage, who has an adopted child, needs to think about this more thoroughly. Treating child support payments as the equivalent "punishment" for male sex to women's "punishment" of having to bear raise children is the sort of thinking that has given birth to the men's rights assholes and anti-contraceptive, anti-abortion thinking. HIV is a public health problem, but children are the responsibility, not the problem, of their family.

Of course, since HIV is a public health problem that is a fiscal nightmare, I understand Savage's desire to get some of the cold, hard cash needed to deal with the problem out of the hands of those who make the problem worse. This urge I sympathize with, so maybe a superior punishment could be docking wages to go into a general fund to pay for medication for people who can't afford it? I don't think this is going to generate much in the way of money, though, because it's probably pretty hard to prove that someone's neglect was deliberate or malicious.

Edited to add: Riggsveda's comment below made me think about this even more. Someone who is supposed to receive child support payments and doesn't because the guy's a deadbeat is in a tough spot--trying to figure out food and clothes and rent. Someone who is relying on that money for life-saving medications may be in an even worse spot. We do not need to foisting more responsibility for keeping people alive, fed and clothed onto individual citizens who fall down on their duties all too often.

83 Comments:

Blogger horsesshouldbesoluckytoo said...

Yes support payments don't relate to punishment.
In interest of fairness i do opine the payments need not be so one sided,after all there was two to tango when to conception occured.Misandrists everywhere may rail against it but why doesn't the woman abort if the guy took off?
Men can be so opportunist it disgusts me ,not all ,but enough so all are tainted with the same stink.
Call me reluctantly male but I'll never produce children for many reasons but this one just seems not a serious one,end the pregancy or set the child out for adoption. The canadain budget just introduced provisions for a tax credit of ten thousand bucks for an adoptive parent.Yes $10,000,but as a reduction in taxable income, not a tax deduction,not the same thing as most know ,i s'pose.
So in short the single parent abandoned by the male may be an vanishing breed soon .

2/25/2005

 
Blogger Riggsveda said...

If only it were true that getting a woman pregnant meant years of paying child support! I know there have been improvements made in that area over the last decade or so, but I spent almost 8 years working in a battered women's shelter, and I wish I had a 5 dollar bill for every time I had to help a woman make a call to the local Domestic Relations office to try to track down or enforce the often years-long lapses of payments, or fight the recalcitrance of well-heeled ex-husbands with high-powered lawyers and community influence. I mean, please. If we really believed this was a "culture of life", wouldn't we make sure that kids were tied to their parents by DNA records and require more than just a few tear-stained promises to ensure their lives were taken seriously by the people who create them?

BTW, congrats on your award.

2/25/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plus, child support payments aren't gender based. If dad gets custody of the child, mom has to pay child support just the same.

2/25/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

See, I don't necessarily think Dan was thinking of it as punishment, so much as "You contributed to me having this condition" (for example, a kid OR a disease) "that's going to make me shell out a fortune for the rest of my life. You should have to bear half the cost of it because you contributed to me having this." Which in a strange, twisted way makes sense.

That said, I don't think anyone's really going to take this proposal seriously, given its source.

2/25/2005

 
Blogger echidne said...

I can finally post! I tried to congratulate you on your winning the Koufax so many times but blogger hates me. Anyway, congratulations! I voted for you both times.

I agree that support payments for children are for the children, not as punishments or rewards of the parents. It's a silly basis for comparison and probably tells more about Savage than anything else.

2/25/2005

 
Blogger BlondebutBright said...

Of course it will never work. You can't prove who infected you with HIV the same way you can prove paternity anyway, right?

The thing that is so disturbing about this issue, and really the root of the problem, is the question of why are people deliberately infecting others, or refusing to test themselves for fear of finding out that they have it? It's beyond egotism, or fear, or apathy. It's malevolence gone nuclear.

2/26/2005

 
Blogger Phila said...

OT, but I thought you might be interested in this sexual phrasebook from 1980s Japan.

2/26/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amazing,

Some radio loud mouth comes up with a brilliant idea that already exists. People, in most states, can already sue another person for intentional or negligent transmission of disease. It is a tort (an offense against a person). Recovery (aside from punitive damages--an entirely different topic) is designed to make the victim whole, which presumably would include medical expenses. And the amount of damages recoverable in many states is adjusted by the amount of negligence (or fault) of the victim.

So you see, the amazing system Savage envisions already exists. The difficulty in implementing it is proof. Unlike paternity, which has definite timelines and can be established by a blood test, proving exactly who infected whom with HIV is much more difficult given the sexual lives lead by the victims over a much longer time horizon when infection may have occured befor it was discovered.

eb

2/26/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Totally OT as well, but this list cracked me up.

2/26/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I initially like Savage's proposal, but upon reading what Amanda said and reflecting, I think she's right.

2/26/2005

 
Blogger NYMOM said...

Hi Mouse...

Two things...

Congrats on your blog award...

AND I agree with Dan Savage...at the very least the person who knowingly spreads HIV should be forced to at least pay the medical coverage of the person infected if not support if that person can't work.

Child support is not the exact analogy; maybe alimony might be a closer own...even if a one-night stand...that you are obligated to another person that you impacted in some way either through marriage or sexual activity...not a punishment but an obligation you voluntarily assumed by your own actions, which is what child support and alimony both are really...

So one vote for Dan Savage here...

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