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Friday, January 21, 2005

Wrong question

Random thing that bugs. The question to Cary Tennis today is: Is cheating ever justified? The letter-writer asks it more poetically, of course.

Passion, desire, frantic groping in the dark, warm lips pressed against each other, this is a huge part of why we live. Do we need to abandon this simply because we made a vow -- a vow we meant very sincerely at the time -- but now find ourselves with someone who simply does not have the romantic spark that we crave?

Obviously, my question is not hypothetical. I'm married to a good person, a kind person, but one who isn't very interested in sex, and whose idea of passion does not match mine. Avoiding details, from everything to kissing to oral sex we have different approaches and different wants. This reality was made excessively real to me when I had a recent fling -- the only one of my marriage -- with someone else.

Well, if you put it that way, you almost sympathize with the guy. Cary navel-gazes and figures that his belief that you at least try to work on your marriage must be an eccentricity of his. But I think this guy is being a coward.

I agree, it's too much to ask someone to give up on sex and passion forever because his/her spouse suddenly withdraws, especially if the withdrawal seems to be a permanent thing. But by no means does that give people license to sneak around behind their spouse's back, no questions asked. To my mind, you at least owe the person you live with a chance to make his/her case before you betray them. I'm sure it's a lot harder to ask for an explanation for the lack of sex than to just go elsewhere, but talking to someone is the baseline amount of courage you need in order to make things work.

I have no doubt in my mind it's hard to just ask someone up front why they don't want to have sex with you. But it's probably a lot more miserable to have to explain why you cheated to someone. This guy's looking for an excuse for his cowardice.

92 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lack of interest in sex is sometimes a result of depression or physical illness, not always acknowledged by the sufferer.

NancyP

1/21/2005

 
Blogger Hugo said...

Yeah, what you said, Amanda.

That kind of sexual dishonesty isn't really excusable. Forgiveaable, maybe. Heck sexual incompatibility might even be grounds for divorce. But you gotta play the game properly, which means total candor.

1/21/2005

 
Blogger Sapphire7 said...

"This guy's looking for an excuse for his cowardice."

I totally agree. If his partner doesn't want sex, perhaps they should be in counseling. There's probably more going on there that he doesn't mention.

Then again, I usually go for the more direct approach. That's just me......

1/21/2005

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wow, this hits the nail on the head. i recently went through such a torture: found out my fiance had cheated on me for SEVEN months of our 3-yr. relationship. you see, the poor bastard had to go through a cold spell of celibacy for 3.5 weeks while i was in a depression and didn't feel like having sex. how dare i be depressed? it's surely my fault, surely he was forced to go out and have an affair with the first thing that crossed his way, had two legs, and a vagina. cowardly isn't the word. i knew the whole time something was up and kept asking him every week if he was sleeping with someone else. he would look me dead in the eye and say, "no!"

oh please!
and me for my part: as a single girl, i'll never get involved with an involved man again. i now know what it's like to be on the other end and see no reason why i should support such cowardly bastards by sleeping with them.

amen.

1/22/2005

 
Blogger Trish said...

I second what others here have said about the lack of sexual desire possibly being related to depression or physical illness. Get that checked first.

And... hello letter-writer??? ... sex is a reciprocal act. It isn't only about having your sexual needs met. Meet your partner's needs. Try new approaches. What about outside the bedroom - how do you treat your partner there? It will reflect what goes on inside the bedroom.

1/22/2005

 
Blogger Erika said...

Why anyone assumes that cheating has to be the answer to a sexless marriage is also beyond me. Maybe many people wouldn't agree to such a relationship, but it seems to me that consensual non-monogamy would be a far better answer than cheating while still affording the same opportunities for extra-marital sexual fulfillment.

For those as totally forgo that option, one wonders if it's really about the need for sex.

1/22/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

1. You don't *need* sex with another person. You may *want* sexual intercourse very much, but you don't *need* it. Not having sexual intercourse is not like starving or suffocating. Men may need sexual release from time to time, to avoid physical discomfort, but masturbation will solve that problem.

2. Cheating isn't justified, because it's cheating. Duh. You don't have to agree to an exclusively monogamous relationship if that's not what you want. But if you did agree, you'd better damned well discuss your dissatisfaction, rather than sneaking around. Otherwise, you're a bad person. Simple as that.

1/22/2005

 
Blogger mythago said...

If you read the whole letter, what the guy asks is not "Should I have an affair?" but "is it OK to end my marriage over this?" And it's annoying that Cary went off into one of his navel-gazing trances, because the answer is a very simple "Well duh, yes." People who are addicted to the 'spark' of a new romance shouldn't marry, nor should they burden their partners with their adrenalin-addict habits and disappointed sighs.

I suspect the guy is just going to keep making the same mistake over and over, though--settling down and then wondering where the 'frantic groping' went.

1/22/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Oh, I don't know about that, Brian. I think the distinction between "need" and "want" can be quite abitrary, especially when it comes to sex. The "want" to be with another person is so all-consuming sometimes that it may as well be a need for all that it distracts you to bits.

And it's not just men that need "release". Yes, it appears that there are more women than men who have shut down their sexual desire and response completely. Use it or lose it and all that. But contrary to common belief, men can shut it down through disuse as well.

1/24/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

I'm not using "need" in a poetic sense. I'm using it in the sense of, something you need is something that the lack of will lead to serious injury or death. On further reflection, I'm not sure that even male sexual release meets that criteria, since even after months men would only suffer mild discomfort. (And there I'm thinking specificly of fluid buildup in the various glands.)

I'm rather astonished that you made the "use it or lose it" comment, since I've not heard that one outside of a high school locker room. And I'd have thought saying that sexual intercourse isn't a "need" but a "want" would have been common sense. Arguing that it's a "need" leads to some noxious conclusions. That argument gets used as a defense of date rape, for instance.

1/25/2005

 
Blogger Amanda said...

Brian, I certainly don't mean non-consensual sex. But I do support the right of two adults to get it on whenever they see fit and the distinction between need and want is being invoked all over the place to insist that right should be taken away. But you're right in that sense.

But "use it or lose it"? Teenage boys or not, it's true. Men and women both who refrain from having any kind of sex, even masturbation, are prone to having problems with arousal and other functions later.

1/25/2005

 
Blogger FoolishOwl said...

I'd assumed the "use it or lose it" comment referred to sexual intercourse, specifically, which is how I've heard it used in the past. I'm sorry I misunderstood that bit.

I hope you'll forgive for going on about this. But the more I think about it, the more I think the "need" versus "want" distinction is extremely important.

The thing about arguing that something is a need is that needs trump other laws. As I understand, the medieval theologians who invented the concept of "natural rights" argued that one "natural right" was the right of a person to steal bread, if there was no other means to obtain food -- because a person NEEDS food to live. So, we've become used to a distinction between wanting something -- which doesn't justify breaking the rules -- and needing something, which does, and which exonerates someone for breaking a rule.

I think there's a history of using the idea that men NEED intercourse to exonerate non-consensual sex. I think the idea is usually unstated, but that's all the more reason to explicitly contest it.

When I was in college, I had several conversations with women who talked about how they'd felt guilty about not having sex with a man, because the man had an erection. I'd have to explain that men get erections easily, and lose them easily, and there's no particular suffering involved in not having an orgasm after having an erection -- which the women I was talking to found surprising. One insisted I was wrong. (She was a very strange person, however.)

One thing that crossed my mind today as I was thinking about this was how, in many accounts of sexual harassment, I've heard some mention of the harassing man having displayed his penis to a woman. I'd never quite understood what the point of that was, then I was thinking about one I'd read about (I think this was in Anita Hill's testimony about Clarence Thomas, but I could be wrong) in which the man had displayed an erect penis, and said, "Look at what you did to me!"

Perhaps that's playing on the idea that sexually arousing a man obligates you to have sex with him.

I was also thinking about the idea that keeps coming up that if a woman wears "provocative" clothing, it exonerates a man who rapes her. I'd always read that as an argument that such clothing is implied consent (which is false of course), but I'm wondering if it's not also playing on an idea that arousing a man, then denying sex, is supposed to be harming him -- because men "need" intercourse if they've been aroused.

I guess a lot of this is speculation on my part.

But finally, I don't think we're under any obligation to demonstrate that consensual intercourse is something people need. I think we should be more confident in the simple claim that if two people want to have sex with each other, that's reason enough. We should have the confidence to assume that human freedom is an assumed social goal, and we don't have to justify every "right" in terms of necessity.

1/25/2005

 
Anonymous Mark@Sanderson.net said...

Amanda,

It's delightful to see people at least addressing this issue. I've been married for 15 plus years and for the past 10, my wife has complained continuously of my incessent need for sex. I'm not certain but to me, a few times a week is certainly not incessent.

She's cut me down to perhaps once every couple months. I've been pushed out of the Master Bedroom and she pulls our children in to sleep with her most every night. It's a sad situation.

Bottom line, sexual incompatibility in my opinion is simply a mental issue much more than physical. If two people are not getting along mentally, they certainly won't get along physically. The problem I'm attempting to address (and how I found your web site) has more to do with how to resolve such an indescrepancy without creating total warfare.

I do love my wife, yet I do want to feel loved. The most intimate feeling I can share with the woman I love is to be naked with her in my arms. If she doesn't want to be there, so be it. I suspect I'm wasting my desire to love. And therefore, I also suspect I should find a lover that is more receptful.

I'm in my mid forties today and I'm feeling if I don't force a resolution to the problem I'm essentially surrendering to 40 more years of being a walking dead male.

My opinion, I suspect sexual incompatibiltiy is simply a symtom to the real problem of two people growing apart mentally. The real question is: How do we address the problem of mental disparity. Do we avoid the problem and let it resolve it's self through catistrophic confrontations? Or do we address it directly and either resolve it or move on.

Either way, the choice is a strong indication of the charactor of the people involved.

I suspect eventually, I'll be forcing the issue. :-(

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